daniel_v

I've been listening to the demos and studio tracks that we had access to for Crisis Airlines/Tribus a lot as of late. Ended up making a track listing as a combination of those available songs as I figured it would be the closest I'd ever get to the actual album after the fall out from last year. Track List is as follows: 1. Lost and Found Kids 2. Triage 3. Tiger By The Tale 4. Daylight Actual 5. Corridor of Trees 6. Hollis 7. Victory is Free Anyways, I don't know if anyone is interested anymore, but I thought I'd start a discussion thread around the tracks we were able to have access to as I really thought these were some strong songs from Matt (especially Lost and Found Kids) and I'd be curious to see what others think almost a couple years now down the line. Likewise there's a lot we don't know about the tracks that were supposed to be released (or at least there's a lot that I don't remember) and I'd also be curious if others can refresh my memory. Questions So, there were apparently several artists/bands that Matt apparently worked with on this album. If I remember correctly they included Lights, Matt Mays, Wintersleep, amongst others. Does anyone remember who all of the bands were and what songs they worked on with Matt? I know the ones he released (Lost and Found Kids, Corridor of Trees, and Hollis) were apparently written mainly by him (with maybe Warne helping some given that he had a certain amount of writing credit on the final listings) but I thought I remembered Matt saying this was supposed to be a collaborative album for the most part. Likewise, does anyone know if the demos he released that weren't listed on the final track listing (Victory is Free and Back of the Tiger) were eventually recorded but just renamed? Or were those ditched altogether. Either way, I loved both of those from him, so it'd be interesting to know if there are studio versions of those laying in the vault now. Also, speaking of renaming things, Hollis obviously was the final form of Daylight Actual (with some beautiful horn work) but in the final track listing there was still a song called Day Light Actual as well. Anyone know if the final "Daylight Actual" was a different song that no one (save for those in the studio) actually heard? Thoughts Almost 2 Years Later Out of all of the tracks we got to hear I'd say Lost and Found Kids is the most interesting and engrossing to me. It didn't quite grab me at first, but man has it ever grown on me. Given that the frame of the track is done using keyboard, it had a very different sound to it, and yet at the same time it still sounds like vintage Matthew Good/Band. The slow and peaceful build that climaxes at the 2:11 mark and then calms back down into an eventual different section of melody is really powerful and moving. Triage was one that captured my interest right off the bat. The melody is some of my favorite writing from Matt that I've heard in a long time and while Matt's vocals sound almost tired, the tired sounding nature of them lends itself perfectly to the subject matter of feeling burnt out and strung out and washed up. I can still listen to this regularly and appreciate it/be moved by it. Back of the Tiger is another really interesting one. I remember once reading in Chart Attack back in 2004 that Matt said he wanted to record and electronic record one day. Back a few years ago Sharon was nice enough to ask Matt for me if he ever still planned to do that and Matt replied that he while he hadn't thought about it for a while, he still thought it would be a really interesting idea. This track to me is the most electronic thing Matt has ever done and he did it well while still making it his own. You listen to it and it still sounds like Matt which is pretty impressive because with a lot of electronic music it just ends up sounding like everything else. Anyways, I've got to say that the more I listen to it the more bummed I am knowing that this will never come out as there are some really stand out tracks from both the demos and final studio versions that came out. Anyone else still listening to these and have any thoughts on them?

Thanks for bringing the topic back towards the musical angle of things. While I find politics interesting to talk about, I really do rather just discuss things of a more positive spirit, especially because it's just less divisive and God knows society has had enough of that in the last few years. So yeah, good call on redirecting the topic I wouldn't be against him playing rarities from earlier albums by any means (such as from Underdogs or Avalanche: The Inescapable Us would be amazing to hear again after seeing/hearing it from 1998 in Coquitlam) but I'm also really glad to read that he's planning to work on a new album and rework some old demos too. I say that because especially after listening to a lot of stuff from him that he has put out in the last 8 years (both demos and studio tracks) there is some amazing material he has put out, so I'll be curious to what both the new and reworked material will sound like. With regards to rerecording We Have Done This Before, I'll be especially curious as to what he does with the bridge from the updated demo that he put out back in 2014, mainly because I thought that bridge was what really made the song stand out and because he reused that bridge in the studio track for Parts. As such, I'm assuming he can't reuse it in any updated version that he puts out for We Have Done This Before and to me I'm wondering if that will take away a lot of the gravity that song possessed. I say that because I remember listening to the first demo of it that didn't have the bridge and it just didn't have the same edge that the updated demo had. Plus, as someone else noted, the ending after the bridge was maybe a little bit not as strong as the rest of the song, so I'll be curious as well if he reworks that too. To be clear, I still think it is a fantastic song with a lot of depth (which is why I still listen to it) but those were just a few of the shortcoming I feel exist in my own person/subjective opinion. I know Matt may not like to read that on account of what he calls "Demoitis" (where listeners can't appreciate a finished product because they're too stuck in their minds on how the original version sounded like, but at the same time, even though I'll never claim to be a musical expert (just a regular fan/listener) I don't think it's a horrible thing for any creator to hear what people who appreciate their music think (as long as they express themselves respectfully), even if the creator ultimately ends up disagreeing. For me personally, if he's going to redo anything, I think a studio version of the original Something Like Storm (the 21 minute version he wrote back in 2014) would be incredibly epic. I still listen to that song multiple times a week and not only do I still find new things in it to appreciate, but I also just still find it unbelievably moving. Tbh, I think it's not only one of the most amazing things he has ever written, but it's probably one of the most amazing songs I have ever heard from any musician. All that considered, aside from the fact that I'd never wish ill health upon any regular person, I certainly hope Matt's health improves. As I've said before, hopefully he's able to work on the drinking issue because obviously it can't be good for his physical or mental health in the long term, especially at a time when so many different pathogens are floating around. Definitely glad the Covid variants that are still around aren't as heavy as the previous ones were.

Since the video has been flagged for defamation and is no longer available on Youtube, I won't share the one that exists else where online, but for those wondering what the controversy was about, there is an article here where Matt clarifies his opinion on the matter. On his Facebook page he also wrote the following: "It is time for me to make a statement. Let me make this very clear - my recent comments on stage in Nanaimo had to do with the subject of tyranny, and at no time did I mention unvaccinated people or vaccines. I don’t even know where that came from. I would never argue that a person does not have the right to govern their own body" I guess the main subject being addressed was whether or not some of the actions/decisions of Canada's current Liberal government during the pandemic (such as denying people E.I who were fired from their jobs for not trusting the Covid vaccines or who had their section 6 charter rights/freedoms violated through the denial of their ability to leave Canada if unvaccinated) could be classified as "tyrannical". Matt said he'd like to drop people who think so off in the Congo where "14 year olds can fire AK-47s at them" so they could have an idea of what a real tyranny was like. Someone who posted the original video online interpreted this to mean unvaccinated people in general. For my part, it's an interesting subject and I have heard the opinion that Matt expressed, expressed by others in the past, so it's not exactly new. However, respectfully, even as someone who is double vaccinated, I do strongly disagree with that opinion and him. While it's true that Justin Trudeau's government is obviously not comparable to that of the governments of the DRC or Uganda- or the gangs that populate those countries- (and I personally do not think Trudeau is evil- only terribly misguided and unfortunately ideological) two wrongs still do not make a right. For example, just because my friend was only stabbed in the leg- while I was stabbed in the back- does not mean that my worse injury cancels the freedom my friend has to point out that any kind of stabbing or violence is wrong. Likewise, the more any government any where is allowed to get away with violating the rights or freedoms of its citizens (minor or major) the more it most likely will try to do the same in the future (regardless of whether one chooses to classify it as a tyranny or elsewise). As such, while I absolutely do not condone idiots protesting in front of hospitals (which I believe were the people Matt was mainly referring to) I don't think the majority of people who disagreed with the actions of Trudeau's government fit into the category of people Matt was talking about. Likewise, even if people do make bad points or act in a childish way when expressing themselves politically- and even though I despise people who take things too seriously- I don't think it's great posture to say or even joke that anyone deserves to be shot at for their opinions. If that were the case a lot of us (myself, Matt, and others) might be not be here today because at times we all get tripped up by our own biases and swept up by group think or mob mentality. Don't get me wrong, I understand his point- there are definitely worse places to exist and live- but again, one wrong does not cancel another out, regardless of what kind of wrong it is. All that said, I would have liked to have seen the full video so I could have gotten the full context of what he was saying, because it was admittedly cut off before he finished speaking.

Dude, that is pretty cool. How did you find this? Ebay or Kijiji? I was wondering about the existence of it for a couple years because back in 2020 I remember talking to someone on Youtube saying they found a demo copy of Underdogs when he used to work in the same building where Bruce Allen (a well known Canadian music manager) had his office. I asked him if the songs sounded any different from the CD versions but never got a reply back. Are there any major differences you can notice in song structures, lyrics, or instrumental parts (E.G- solo's or vocal takes)? If you can find a way to get these uploaded that would be super interesting to listen to. Either way thanks for sharing that you found this.

Lol, I had forgotten about Matt's "beef" with Ed the Sock. The way that was edited was hilarious. Matt's on stage and then all of a sudden he's getting his hair and make up done, lol. I laughed at the guy holding Matt back as Matt yells, "He's just a friggin sock!!!!!" They actually had some good conversations back in the day. I remember when Ed was jokingly running for PM and Matt called in to inform Ed that he had to be a member of a political party to actually get elected which pissed Ed off, haha. Thanks for uploading all this Chris. It's a nice blast from the past

I’m going to write a more detailed post when I have more time because I would love to do a deep dive into all the songs and thematic explorations on each album, but for now (since I can’t write 5000 + words with the time I have) I’ll write down at least some thoughts because I’ve been wanting to ever since Adam made this thread. Plus I do think this is an interesting topic. Reading the above post got me thinking about these albums again and considering some considerations that I hadn’t thought about before, so I’d be interested to see what other people’s thoughts are as well. Anyways, here’s my list for the full length albums: 4- Underdogs: It feels weird to place this at the bottom because it is not by any means a weak album. In fact, it’s very closely matched for me with Beautiful Midnight and does have some true gems in it (The Inescapable Us being one them). I just feel that in comparison to the other 3 albums, there’s just a tiny bit less that I gravitate towards on a personal level here. However, it still has great, great power to it. I can still remember listening to “My Out of Style” when I was 14 for the first time on my discman and being truly transported by the lead guitar work that Dave does at the end of the song along with Matt’s sky reaching vocal falsettos. All of it was so focused, clear, and meaningful. I had never heard something quite so epic before. As far as other songs go, as I mentioned, The Inescapable Us is probably still in my top 5 to this day. I completely agree that when listened to the sonic landscape paints a 3 dimensional picture of things drifting by. For me, all the harmonic and keyboard background noise that was worked in always makes me think of driving or floating in the dark (as it does feel like a night song) as lights and other things that are moving so fast you can’t identify them go pass. Also, Matt’s vocals in here are near perfection. The way he sings “Steal it away” with that falsetto again always creates chills. Change of Season is another standout. I can’t listen to it without being transported back to the year 2000 when I first heard it. For some reason I always picture a fall season with this song and a lot of orange. No idea why… Lastly, I firmly believe Rico gets waaaay too much hate. Still love the laid back vibe this song has. Just very relaxing and fun. Anyways, an exceptional album overall and again, the only reason it’s at the bottom is due to a slight deficiency in memory associations with the songs and because I think the production in Beautiful Midnight was a bit above what it was in this album (even though the production here is still top notch too). 3- Beautiful Midnight: Like Underdogs, just because this isn’t higher up for me doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a great deal of meaning for me. I can remember when I was still in high school I would drive around town on rainy days or nights and just soak in most of the songs. So many memories associated with this one. Elements of note for me on this one are that I love the atmospheric production on this album, it got me into the band, it brings me back to a much simpler time period of my life and it has one of my favorite songs of all time in Giant. The dreamlike landscape created in that one by all of the band members and their instrumentation, along with Warne’s beautiful production work, was something I had never heard a band pull off. Plus, all of Dave’s lead guitar work was just next level and the solo he does in Giant is hands down my favorite solo of all time. Furthermore, while I’m generally not a singles guy, I do have to admit that it was LMU that I first heard on the radio and got me into the band/Matt’s music. That opening riff is just so iconic and instantly snags your attention. I can’t think of another one like it, actually. Strange Days too always had the ability to capture my attention and hold it. It had a beautiful build from just the acoustic and has a very majestic feel to it from Dave’s keyboard work. The funny thing is though, that when it comes to singles, like Apparitions before it, despite HTB being one of Matt’s biggest songs, I was never really all that drawn to that one. I don’t think it’s a bad song, but it just never spoke to me in any meaningful way. It’s kind of weird to think that most of the band’s most popular songs (save for Load Me Up or Strange Days) or albums for that matter, are one’s that I never really gravitated towards as much compared to others. Overall, again, like Underdogs, just because it’s lower down on my list doesn’t mean I think of it as a lesser album. I just happen to have a very strong connection to the other two albums on a personal level that I can’t put either Midnight or Underdogs above them. 2- The Audio of Being: Tbh, I don’t have the energy to talk about this one right now, lol. Too much to describe and discuss. Suffice to say that as far as longevity goes, I can still listen to every single song on this album today and still have them sound not only fresh, but also still carry a great deal of the potency they did when I first listened to them. So much honesty and thematic quality from both the lyrics and sonic landscape in every single song. Lastly, as with figuring out where to place Underdogs and Midnight, it was a very close debate in my head about whether to place this as number 1 or number 2. I’ll explain why it doesn’t quite make the number 1 spot in my full post, but suffice to say, it was a very close consideration for me. 1- Last of the Ghetto Astronauts- Again, not enough energy to get into worthwhile detail, but again, like AOB, even after 2 decades, I can still listen to every single song on this album and be drawn into each one without them feeling old or outdated. Likewise, out of the entire MGB catalogue, I think that from a song writing structure, these are the most unique and engrossing to me, both from Matt’s catalogue and even other artists in general. I have never heard song structures or textures like these one’s before. Lastly, as I’ve said in the past, I love how the production work on this album allowed all of the band members at the time to showcase the massive talent that all of them possessed. Indeed, I love being able to listen to songs, focus on each different instrument, while also marveling at how each one adds something exceptional to the song itself and there is so much in each song to focus on. Whether it was Matt’s manically speeded guitar playing, Dave’s backdrop painting and song lifting keyboard work, Geoff’s brilliant bass lines, or Ian’s busy, standout, booming drum sounds, all of it is so exceptionally jaw dropping that I still can’t believe such a unique album managed to be created. All of John’s recollections from last year have only made me appreciate it more. Again, I can’t get into too much detail right now, but I appreciate every single song on this album and it’s not really possible for me to listen to it without being pulled into each one and then get lost by a thousand different elements in each song. Anyways, as I said, I'd be curious to see what other people think and I'll create an even longer post than this one sometime in the near or later future.

It is Leonard, yeah. It's funny you should ask what he has been up to. When Travis passed away last year I noted that it was interesting that, as a fan of MGB, he too was, for a time, heavily into creating music himself and that so many other people MGB/Matt's music has inspired also got into music themselves. As it turns out, Leonard was/is no exception to that either. Apparently he is an audio engineer and is writing/recording music himself too. Here's a song on his Youtube channel from one of his albums. And thanks for sharing that Chris. I was going to do so myself but just hadn't gotten around to it yet. Travis felt he did a horrible job at the interview, but especially for a 17 year old who was doing his first interview, I thought he did a fine job. Even with regards to the concert itself me and Adam had to keep telling him to not to beat himself up. He was quite critical of certain aspects of it despite the overall quality, lol. And while I think a lot of people have already seen it, here is the segment he put together of the concert and the interview he did with Matt. It gives a little more back ground into the concert itself: Some other random thoughts about the concert were that it's amazing not only how into the show the whole crowd was, but also just how laid back the entire band was too. At one point during EIA, a girl gets up on stage, starts dancing, shakes Dave's hand (to which Dave is quite polite and amenable), then actually grabs Matt's hand as he is trying to play guitar and then kisses him on the cheek. Through it all neither Matt or Dave miss a beat and Matt even chuckles/eventually comments (after the song is done) "What're ya gonna do?", lol. Another thing me, Adam and Travis were laughing about when we first watched this together was the psychology of those who throw their shows at concerts (which happened a lot at this one). I mean, what do people who throw their shoes do afterwards? I mean, do you go home barefoot? Hahaha. Really, who in their right mind throws a shoe? That is unless they've stolen someone else's It's was interesting though because in later years Matt would take a hardline approach against people throwing things which was understandable given the dangers of throwing certain things and just the general disrespect involved in such an act. But, their laid back attitude in this show just made it all the more apparent how special everyone probably felt it was.

I feel like I’ve sat on this for too long. The only reason I didn’t release it sooner was that before Travis passed away last year he asked if we ever did release it that said release would only be done with Matt’s (and or Dave/Ian’s) permission. I contacted Matt last year and asked, but unfortunately wasn’t able to get a response back. However, both Ian and Dave have said they are fine with it being released. Likewise, given that Matt never explicitly said he was against the release either after reading the message (at least I'm assuming he read it since there was a "read" receipt), I’m assuming if he didn’t want it to see the light of day he would have said so. To that end, given the continuing crappy times we’re all living through, I thought I should finally give this a public release for those who are still interested in MGB and Matt’s music. Hopefully it'll give a lift to a few people and their day whenever they see it. In my honest opinion, it is an incredibly special concert for various reasons. The first has to do with Travis himself. He was only 17 when he filmed it and it was the first/only one he would record. Watching it though you’d think he’d been doing it for far, far longer a period of time. Likewise, this almost never saw the light of day. Were it not for this community and Adam digitizing/sharing old video footage that Sue (Geoff’s sister) was kind enough to lend out, Travis never would have seen the old TV spot online where they shared his clips from the concert/interview he did with Matt afterwards. Had he not seen that, he probably never would have bothered to dig up the full concert, restore the footage, and eventually share the HSIY performance he shared here, which eventually led to me and Adam going to meet him in Langley, watching the concert in person at his personal theater in his apartment complex, and then eventually being given copies ourselves. The second has to do with the performance itself. Aside from it being the first and only concert Matt ever played in his home town, he continually references how cool it was to be performing in his home town. Right near the end he says something along the lines of, “And I’ll tell you one thing- between now and the end of fucking time I’ll probably remember this night more than anything else, so thanks for that”. Indeed, imo, you can always tell whether bands are into the music they're playing or whether it's just another gig for them. There's something about the energy from all the band members that either is or just isn't there. Aside from Matt's statements regarding the nature of the night, you can tell as well that both Ian and Dave were having a great time too. Hell, even Geoff who looked like he might possibly not have been in the greatest mood at the start, appeared to not be able to help himself from getting into the music as the show went on. Lastly, there is a song that was played live that night that there exists no other recorded audio or video footage of anywhere that I am aware of. In fact, when Travis first shared the setlist I thought he was probably mistaken. When I clarified with him he assured me it was indeed the correct song. When he told me how it was preformed I was beyond excited and blown away. When I actually saw/heard it finally, it definitely did not disappoint. For those of you who don't remember the original thread, I won't spoil the surprise, but hopefully those who are still fans of MGB's music will appreciate it as much as I did when they get to the encore section. It's one of the most haunting and beautiful things I've ever heard. Anyways, I have no idea how many people will or won't be interested in this, but hopefully for those of you who are, this will be fun to watch and a nice trip down memory lane. If anyone wants to, please feel free to share your thoughts below. P.S- If Matt does end up seeing this and would like it removed, out of respect for Travis and out of respect for all Matt's music has done for me over the decades, I will respect that wish and remove it if I receive a request to do so. While I don't expect to receive such a request- and while I do believe Travis would be okay with this since we were just in the process of trying to get ahold of Matt right before Travis passed away- because those were his wishes beforehand, I want to make sure I do respect those wishes if, on the off chance, they needed to be respected. Lastly, if anyone does happen to have any old video or audio footage like this laying around in their own storage that has never seen the light of day (or happens to know someone who does) I would ask that you consider digging it up and getting a hold of @adam_777 He knows how to restore and digitize old footage that could otherwise degrade and become unplayable due to old age. Stuff like this, while not possessing a huge market, means a lot to more than a few of us and being able to get it online is sort of like adding things to a (digital) museum, imo. Saving it is important because, aside from the importance of music and art themselves in all our lives, unshared art and live performances are another kind of experience/art altogether. Indeed, to capture a new kind of energy to a song, or to hear something that has never before been heard (or played live), is what makes art/music so compelling- the surprise, excitement, and reveries created are one of a kind/timeless because worthwhile art is timeless. I don't think I understood that when I was younger, but as I've gotten older and been lucky enough to meet/know all the people who've been kind/gracious enough to share things I would have never gotten to see/hear otherwise, I've gained an appreciation for that fact. So hopefully this can be a small way for me to continue giving back in turn and just maybe might inspire others who have similar material in their possession to get it out and online as well (provided the original creators/band members are not against the release). Cheers, everyone

Learned just a while ago that we can tag people in posts. @gursky don't know if your message notifications are on, but you might want to check your inbox too.

The wait between vaccine times is troubling. Recently a virologist named Dr. Geert Vaden Bossche came out warning that he doesn't believe we should be vaccinating people in the middle of a pandemic because of the risk for existing variants to mutate into something that could kill far, far more people than are dying right now. Even those who disagree with him on his position of stopping vaccines agree that a slow roll out of the vaccine could lead to something resembling what he is talking about. Those two views considered, given that the manufacturers of the mRNA vaccines recommended only 3 to 4 weeks between doses, I think there is an argument to be made that the feds are acting quite dangerously with their decision to accept the NACI's 4 month wait period idea. Don't get me wrong, I understand that our government wants to get as many people as possible their first doses to try and drop hospitalizations in the short term, but in the long term, again, for the reasons listed above, that position could be really scary in the future. With regards to receiving the vaccine personally, it took me a while to decide on getting it. I eventually (and reluctantly) did get my first dose just this past Saturday (because I am constantly interacting with a wide variety of people at work and because I worry about what Dr. Bossche and Damania have discussed), but I don't blame people who are hesitant at all. The number of different outlooks on where the virus came from(zoonosis/the wet market in Wuhan vs. the lab leak/gain of function hypothesis), the world's response to it (E.G- debating the efficacy of lockdown and the cost/reward ratio they entail), and what should be done going forwards, provides an unreal amount qualitative and quantitative data to consider, and that applies to the vaccines as well (especially given the different kinds there are and understanding the histories of the companies who have created them). To that end, I ended up doing a lot of thinking (probably more than I should have) before I received mine. Understanding Hesitancy First off, there is the core issue of trust. To be specific, some of the companies making the vaccines do not by any means have the cleanest track record. Johnson and Johnson, for example, have been sued hundreds of millions of dollars in the past for their role in the opioid crisis that has claimed hundreds of thousands of lives in North America. Then there is Pfizer, who has paid out over 1.2 billion dollars in thousands of different settlements for their creation and marketing of the drug Prempro. That drug was eventually found to cause breast cancer in women. So obviously they don’t have the greatest track record in being open and transparent about side effects that occur in their products. Even now there are reports coming out about possible links between the Pfizer vaccine and short term paralysis in certain people (though whether this was the result of the vaccine or unrelated medical conditions remains unclear given that correlation does not by any means always equal causation). Either way, I think a lot of people understandably think to themselves that if these companies are so interested in profits that they ignored and obfuscated such data (both in the past and present), there is then that much less reason to assume they have created a safe vaccine as opposed to a rushed one. Granted mRNA vaccines have been in the works for many decades, but their implementation is still of course incredibly new. Hence why I don't blame people for being cautious about which company they want to receive one from either. Likewise, there is the linked issue that a large portion of the funding that the FDA receives bizarrely enough actually comes from the industry players that they are supposed to be regulating. As such, even though the FDA has approved all 4 major vaccines(through Emergency Use Authorization) that are being shared all over the continent, there is an understandable question that people have regarding whether the they can trust the FDA given the conflict of interest that exists between approving vaccines created by companies that supply such a large portion of their operating budget in the first place. Then there is the even more frightening idea being put forwards by alarmists in some circles that these companies, in collusion with governments around the world, are literally trying to depopulate the earth by poisoning people with what is only being marketed as a vaccine. Normally I would dismiss this kind of talk, but given that some of it is coming from someone (Dr. Mike Yeadon) who used to work for Pfizer for over 16 years, it did stop me in my tracks for a bit because I am not educated enough to analyze whether what he is saying about the genetic sequences of the variants is valid or invalid. However, while all of the above is understandably worrisome and emotion inducing, I do think it all can be put into context and dismissed by getting a wider viewpoint from others doctors, scientists, virologists, and epidemiologists (and just through common sense). The Case for Vaccines All of the above considered, I think the core issue around choosing to get a vaccine has to do with trust though education, understanding the strange link between intelligence and paranoia, looking at legitimate fears around hospital capacities, and a longing to have things return to normal (because normalcy would obviously benefit everyone). Indeed, as much understandable fear exists around this topic, I think that fear also blinds people to the wider picture (even intelligent people). Likewise, I do think the simplistic way in which the internet and social media allows half truths, along with lies, to be shared amongst people who lack a full education in certain issues (myself included), creates cognitive distortions around what is and isn't accurate (for example, the idea that lock downs are an attempt to slowly engender us into slave like conditions, despite the fact that regular, mass protests are still allowed without arrests here in Canada). With regards to intelligence and paranoia, I think many people assume if someone is intelligent they won't get paranoid. In my opinion this is a very large misunderstanding of paranoia. After all, the former scientist from Pfizer that I referenced above (the one who thinks his former company- along with the rest of big pharma- is trying to depopulate the earth by 95 percent) is obviously an incredibly well educated and intelligent individual based on his experience and way of explaining things. Likewise, it is beyond my education to analyze or discredit his opinions around why the virus variants shouldn't be of any concern to anyone (on account of their genetic sequences only apparently being .3 percent different at most). However, if one looks at his larger claim logically (the one that argues big pharma is trying to depopulate the earth) it simply doesn't make any sense. Indeed, it is is exactly because of their greed that it doesn't make any sense that they would want to kill off 95 percent of their potential customer base. They exist to perpetually make money. No self serving company is going to literally kill the majority of people who exist to make that profit possible. Further more, Dr. Zubin Damania did a good breakdown and discrediting of some of Dr. Yeadon's former claims that seemed rational on the surface as well (such as the idea that the vaccines could cause female sterility). As such, it occurs to me that more researched and educated people than myself could probably debunk his position on the variants not being harmful as well. As such, I don't believe that Dr. Yeadon is lying about his opinions- I simply believe that he has allowed his paranoia (centered in his amygdala) to over take the logic processing part of his brain (his pre-frontal cortex) and it is not irregular for intelligent people to be overtaken by their emotions. From there, on the the issue of hospital capacities and variants, I do think it is worthwhile to return to the topic I mentioned about the virologist who is warning about how deadly the variants could be due to the selective evolutionary pressure the vaccine could put on the viruses to mutate even further. Indeed, we're already seeing ICU's being loaded with younger people in North America and in different parts of world. To that end, I think the question becomes "Is some protection better than none if these variants are going to become more common, transmissible, and deadly?" Likewise, an even more simple question is whether or not the possible unknown, long term side effects of the vaccines could be worse than the effects of actually getting the virus itself? After all, many countries are now seeing younger people being hospitalized (https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/health/b117-covid-variant-young-patients/index.html) and many others have seen their health care capacity decimated by this virus (Italy, for example) and others are on the brink of that happening as well today (see Chile). In relation to the idea that people can't trust big pharma to be transparent about the side effects of their products, while I do absolutely agree with that hesitancy due to past transgressions- and think that any possible short term/long term side effects should be examined and studied immediately as they come up- a doctor from the U.K made a good compilation of videos attempting to dispel what he believes were/are common misperceptions around mRNA vaccines here. Whether one agrees with his points is up to them and their own knowledge of what points he is addressing (since there are many). To one of his points as well, given that phase 1, 2, 3 trials were all done for all of the vaccines, any major side effects of common concern should have come up during that time period. Also, again, the amount of research done on mRNA vaccines really is quite comprehensive. Anyways, perhaps a good place to finish is to return to what we were taking about at the top- wait times and variant escape, because that is mainly what contributed to my decision to get vaccinated. Again there is a debate between Dr. Geert Vaden Bosshe and others in the medical community around whether or not vaccinating people in the middle of the pandemic could lead to vaccine resistant variants killing hundreds of millions (if not billions) of people. To that end, I think Dr. Zubin Damania made a good counter to Dr. Bossche by noting that is why we want to get as many people vaccinated as soon as possible- because the sooner it happens the less chance there will be variant escape. Likewise, if these variants to do become as horrible as Dr. Bossche is suggesting they could become, I would rather have some protection from a ramped up immune system as opposed to just facing them alone with my regular immune system that has never encountered any version of the Sars Cov 2 Virus. Final Thoughts Now, is it possible I and all the other promoters of vaccines are wrong about all of this? Of course. No one is psychic or omniscient and there is a crap load of data to consider. But, all of the above considered is why I decided to get vaccinated myself (regardless of whether it turns out to be a good or bad idea in the long run). I decided to share all of this because it occurs to me that if I was having these thoughts and debates with myself then most likely many others who are stuck in the middle still are as well. To that end, thanks for posting this topic @foats It's definitely an interesting one and worth discussing. Edit- And for the record, I did get the Pfizer shot (even though I was originally booked in for the Moderna) and I've been fine since. Admittedly I did have a crappy headache yesterday (72 hours after), but that could have been due to anything given that it's not uncommon for me to get headaches every once in a while. It passed later in the day.

Admittedly I wasn't really a fan of the first hour and 15 minutes of the film (save for Steppenwolf's amazing entrance), but I have to admit after that time point, it got surprisingly a lot better and finished with a great climax (miles ahead of the theatrical cut). Anyone else had a chance to check out his original 4 hour long version of the film yet?

Speaking of pills, I don't know if this is of note, since I'm not sure what was on the site before all of this started, but the mention of pills got me thinking about what's on the main page for the website. When I did a search of green and white pill capsules it cited Chlordiazepoxide Hydrochloride, which apparently is used for alcohol withdrawal. The pic on his front page looks quite similar to Chlordiazepoxide Hydrochloride capsules. Does anyone know if the front page was different back in January?

Speaking of apologies, I should offer one myself. I really shouldn't be recounting other people's stories second hand. That's for them to do, not me, because second hand stories often contain inaccuracies. Sharon just provided some clarification for me about the timeline of my original comment (which I had originally misunderstood) and as such I deleted my post where I talked about that. Even small details of misunderstanding can lead to large misconceptions and accuracy is always important. I should know better and should have clarified with Sharon before I said anything. So yeah, my apologies to everyone as well. Moonlight (or moderators) if you see this and want to delete the section of the post where I am still quoted discussing that misunderstanding of the timeline, it would probably be best for the sake of preventing the unintentional spread of inaccurate info.

Edit- deleted because it contained semi inaccurate, second hand info.

I understand what you’re saying, but have to respectfully disagree. To excuse the behavior would be to ignore it and say Matt just can’t help it. I do not believe I said that (and if that is the interpretation some people got, that was not my intention). What I did try to explain is that there is a difference between excusing something and understanding it. After all, excusing something equals ignoring/forgiving it (which is not my place to do here); understanding something equals examining why something occurred so that it can be productively addressed and prevented in the future.