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During the Matt Good/Limblifter/Auf der Maur concert, I "caught" one of Pat's sticks at the end of the show. Actually, I missed the catch but I was the first to grab it off the ground.

Avalanche has 21st Century Living with the "profanity". I'm pretty sure Ghetto is clean from what I remember.

I don't think Modest Mouse and SDRE sound very much alike. Both good though. Indeed. Depends on what albums you listen to. Compare The Lonesome Crowded West against The Rising Tide or Good News For People Who Love Bad News against Diary. Nadda.

MFC - Pearl Jam (live)

Definitely not. As excellent as Weapon is, I'd rank it #10-15 overall for all Matt Good (Band). Just a TAD overrated by you guys, ever so slightly.

I really don't consider that bashing at all. I'm not really bashing the music and calling him OR the music terrible; just that he had to pull some answers out of his sleave after the recording process since it was such a drastic turn musically. No bashing intended. I never said that he wanted more money; just because he is leaning to be more accessible musically doesn't mean that he is craving for cash.

Find me one line where I actually bashed Matthew Good. I never once stated that you believed that it's a revolutionary album. Not once. You handle criticism so poorly, it's embarassing really. You need to understand that not everyone is going to agree with you and telling them to "go elsewhere or get a valid argument" is a juvenile attempt at avoidance. Well, yes, obviously the man has more talent than me. That was the basis of my argument earlier. With all the potential that he has, why would he want to make such a dumbed-down effort besides the fact of "makin' it live off the floor"? I just love how you are trying to end this conversation after each post when you prove absolutely nothing to me.

Awesome question. Rodchester Kings - Never heard both so can't choose. Broken - Entresol. Left Of Normal - As Long As You're Mine. Euphony - Dancing Invisible 15 Hours On A September Thursday - Endsong. Last Of The Ghetto Astronauts - The War Is Over. Raygun - Generation X-Wing. Underdogs - Change Of Season. Lo Fi B-Sides - Fated. Beautiful Midnight - A Boy And His Machine Gun. Loser Anthems - Life Beyond The Minimum Safe Distance. Audio Of Being - The Rat Who Would Be King. Avalanche - Avalanche. White Light Rock And Roll Review - Blue Skies Over Badlands. In A Coma - Tripoli (Rooms).

Very respectable order. Especially the last three positions.

Holy cow, a whole set of great/excellent songs; with the exception of Oh Be Joyful. 1) Avalanche 2) Truffle Pigs 3) Sort Of A Protest Song 4) The Fine Art Of Falling Apart 5) Advertising On Police Cars

This isn't an arguement about someone winning or losing, for me anyways, its about stating your opinion, whatever that may be. If you think your winning, congratualtions, this is my last post regarding this because frankly there isn't much else to say. You say that "Recording an album "live off the floor" is only more difficult because the artist relies very little on post-production editing as they try to "capture" the live environment of the sound". Question #1 - are you are musician and could you play guitar and sing at the same time (he did this on some tracks) in a limited number of takes while every other artist records 500 takes and splices the best parts of each take together and throws Auto-Tune on their as well? If you haven't done this, then you don't know. It is way harder to get a polished sound doing it the old school way, multitrack recording is far too easy. The truth is that to do this live off the floor method successfully, you have to be tight as a band and be very talented. Matt said Avalanche was a tedious affair and the White Light sessions were getting back to just enjoying music. If your not a musician, you cannot understand this. You've also got to remember, Matt only started playing guitar when he was 20, and never played lead until Avalanche. He has a such a burden in terms of workload when he makes an record, he has little help, and he thrives this way, pulling out excellent work while doing all of the songwriting himself. "obviously I can't read the man's mind", thank you thats what I wondered. No proof = lack of point. Yes the idead that lyrics are more important is a subjective one, one that I support, to an extent, I obviously meant that there are limits to this, you can't just be aan amazing poet and write the most intelligent words then throw a chord progression behind it, take what I said with a grain of salt. Regardign feedback, I'm also positive Matt has it on every record he's ever made and is he then just follwing bands like Sonic Youth, hardly,its a great effect, everyone and their dog employs it, nothing more to say. I don't care what you say, there is no strength in the argument that Alert Status Red is a straighforward song lyrically compared to that which is on the radio, far from it. As far as "libertarian/socialist beliefs" are concerned, they are not a new trend as you stated, look at history, they have been around for quite awhile, and the reason they are popular now is the same reason they have always been popular, people don't like to be exploited and enjoy social programs, there have been countless revolutions throughout history that exploit this, its nothing new and not somethign that is a bandwagon to be jumped upon. Again< i never stated that Matt Good was making musical history with WLRRR, i have repeatedly said, which you choose to ignore, that I just think its a great album, with excellent songs, and lyrics which are different from the majority of music on the radio. I don't think that believing "Matt Good being less commercial because of sales is a very ignorant viewpoint" at all. Like I said, he could have made a record much more commercial than WLRRR, but he didn't. Wilco have had great success, but it hasn't been on the radio. Ask anyone who listens to the radio, are they ever on there? Not on any major radio stations thats for sure. And just because critics have hailed them, doesn't mean that the public likes them. They have not won any major awards and even lost in the running for the shortlist prize, so I don't see them as a commercial band. Selling records is not a problem anyway, nothing wrong with financial success, as long as you don't alter your art to achieve this, which you you seem to think Matt has done. And that's where I think your wrong. Thats the end of that, you fail to make any points which have any proof, This isn't going to you but to everyone else. "Matt Good is trying to coincide with the CREATE trends of alternative music." I have no idea why I used the word "create" but someone still managed to agree with me; I obviously meant to use "current". Anyway, I'll try to keep this more short and sweet. Just because someone isn't a musician doesn't mean that they don't have a greater amount of musical theory/knowledge over someone who was gifted enough to have excellent hand co-ordination. That's an unfair & totally irrelevant opinion of yours and it will be dismissed. This isn't a debate; it's a discussion. Who says that we need proof in relation to what Matt Good is thinking? Oh please. Everything else you've said doesn't interest me. But I still find out funny that you honestly believe that White Light was a less commercial album than its predecessors. Oh, one last thing. Wilco have not won any major awards and even lost in the running for the shortlist prize? Really? Then why is it that Wilco won at The Grammys for Best Alternative Album in 2005 for "A Ghost In Born"? when you actually have any understanding of music you may start to talk, you are uneduacated and your arguement has no relevance, you are dismissed. You only want to argue because you have nothing else to do. I like Matthew Good because he is good at what he does, your not. End of discussion. If your not a fan, go elsewhere, you are in no position to comment on musical talent. What's this?? I'm not allowed to talk with you because [A] I don't like Matt Good? or I'm not a tremendously multi-talented musician so I can't stay up to par with you? That's pretty sad on your part and if that's the case, then I'm glad that I'm not going to speak with you again.

17 by The Smashing Pumpkins.

This isn't an arguement about someone winning or losing, for me anyways, its about stating your opinion, whatever that may be. If you think your winning, congratualtions, this is my last post regarding this because frankly there isn't much else to say. You say that "Recording an album "live off the floor" is only more difficult because the artist relies very little on post-production editing as they try to "capture" the live environment of the sound". Question #1 - are you are musician and could you play guitar and sing at the same time (he did this on some tracks) in a limited number of takes while every other artist records 500 takes and splices the best parts of each take together and throws Auto-Tune on their as well? If you haven't done this, then you don't know. It is way harder to get a polished sound doing it the old school way, multitrack recording is far too easy. The truth is that to do this live off the floor method successfully, you have to be tight as a band and be very talented. Matt said Avalanche was a tedious affair and the White Light sessions were getting back to just enjoying music. If your not a musician, you cannot understand this. You've also got to remember, Matt only started playing guitar when he was 20, and never played lead until Avalanche. He has a such a burden in terms of workload when he makes an record, he has little help, and he thrives this way, pulling out excellent work while doing all of the songwriting himself. "obviously I can't read the man's mind", thank you thats what I wondered. No proof = lack of point. Yes the idead that lyrics are more important is a subjective one, one that I support, to an extent, I obviously meant that there are limits to this, you can't just be aan amazing poet and write the most intelligent words then throw a chord progression behind it, take what I said with a grain of salt. Regardign feedback, I'm also positive Matt has it on every record he's ever made and is he then just follwing bands like Sonic Youth, hardly,its a great effect, everyone and their dog employs it, nothing more to say. I don't care what you say, there is no strength in the argument that Alert Status Red is a straighforward song lyrically compared to that which is on the radio, far from it. As far as "libertarian/socialist beliefs" are concerned, they are not a new trend as you stated, look at history, they have been around for quite awhile, and the reason they are popular now is the same reason they have always been popular, people don't like to be exploited and enjoy social programs, there have been countless revolutions throughout history that exploit this, its nothing new and not somethign that is a bandwagon to be jumped upon. Again< i never stated that Matt Good was making musical history with WLRRR, i have repeatedly said, which you choose to ignore, that I just think its a great album, with excellent songs, and lyrics which are different from the majority of music on the radio. I don't think that believing "Matt Good being less commercial because of sales is a very ignorant viewpoint" at all. Like I said, he could have made a record much more commercial than WLRRR, but he didn't. Wilco have had great success, but it hasn't been on the radio. Ask anyone who listens to the radio, are they ever on there? Not on any major radio stations thats for sure. And just because critics have hailed them, doesn't mean that the public likes them. They have not won any major awards and even lost in the running for the shortlist prize, so I don't see them as a commercial band. Selling records is not a problem anyway, nothing wrong with financial success, as long as you don't alter your art to achieve this, which you you seem to think Matt has done. And that's where I think your wrong. Thats the end of that, you fail to make any points which have any proof, This isn't going to you but to everyone else. "Matt Good is trying to coincide with the CREATE trends of alternative music." I have no idea why I used the word "create" but someone still managed to agree with me; I obviously meant to use "current". Anyway, I'll try to keep this more short and sweet. Just because someone isn't a musician doesn't mean that they don't have a greater amount of musical theory/knowledge over someone who was gifted enough to have excellent hand co-ordination. That's an unfair & totally irrelevant opinion of yours and it will be dismissed. This isn't a debate; it's a discussion. Who says that we need proof in relation to what Matt Good is thinking? Oh please. Everything else you've said doesn't interest me. But I still find out funny that you honestly believe that White Light was a less commercial album than its predecessors. Oh, one last thing. Wilco have not won any major awards and even lost in the running for the shortlist prize? Really? Then why is it that Wilco won at The Grammys for Best Alternative Album in 2005 for "A Ghost In Born"?

Sorry, the server is being a pain in the ass right now.

Can you verify this? > "Matt Good was just trying to find an excuse when critics asked him why the album was such a step backwards in the opposite direction." I forgot you had a portal into his head that allowed you to know what he was thinking. I never said white light was better or more musically advanced than avalanche, I think avalanche is a much better album is those repects, I simple agreed with the fact that WLRRR was a good album and featured some excellent songs. As far as who discovered the raw sound in modern rock, to be quite honest i have no idea and don't think it's easily discernable. I have nothing against Sonic Youth, I personally think they were cast into that whole grunge scene unfairly and have continued farther than most bands of that time period becuase of their talent, I was just commenting that they didn't invent feedack. Being a musician, I understand the difficulty in recording an album live off the floor these days and so i respect WLRRR. Sure there are some songs I wonder why he put them on it (NAFL) is a perfect example. But I also come from a school that values lyrics much more than song structure. Lots of bands change their sound but not what they say, Matt has done both and I respect him for that. I also stated that melody was the foundation of music not structure. Everything every put to tape has a melody of some sort that's what music is. I love stuff that has a lack of usual structure, songs off of Radiohead's Kid A and Amnesiac as well as later Talk Talk albums and Sigur Ros. But to just record feedback and say it is somehow revolutionary and groundbreaking is somewhat of an overstatement. Music consists of lyrics and instrumentation, not just the latter. Alert Status Red is not your most straightforward song when it comes to lyrical content, if he wanted to follow that vein he would have taken a Green Day aprroach and written a song like Wake Me Up When September Ends, which is fairly obvious in its message. Matt songs have become less accessible as his career has continued, record sales support this. I never stated that Matt Good was the figurehead of raw music, my basic point was that WLRRR was a departure from previous work and was an excellent record and better than most music out there. The fact that he has "moved away from that edgy sound" illustrates my point perfectly, he is evolving, that edgy sound is all over the radio and it sells, he is seemingly trying to move away from that, which I think is progress. Again your pigeonholing genres, Wilco is considered altcountry and there is nothing commercial about them, thay have played with song structure more than most bands, listen to Yankee Hotel Foxtrot or A Ghost Is Born and you'll get my drift. At this point if you feel you really have anythign relevant to say, please continue. I think I have proved my point. Cheers. This is far from over. Anyway, for my verficiation, all I meant was Matt Good was trying to avoid any criticism surrounding the change of the album; obviously I can't read the man's mind. Recording an album "live off the floor" is only more difficult because the artist relies very little on post-production editing as they try to "capture" the live environment of the sound. I, for one, am not a supporter of this as downgrading and simplyfing (yes, simplyfing) the music to only attempt to recreate the foundations of past rock & roll acts is a far cry of being anything noteworthy or special. Your comments on lyrics having more importance over the music is very subjective and it's tough to argue something like that. So if a group made an album that was incredibly weak musically but arguably the strongest lyrical material in their discography, would you consider it their strongest effort? Yes, song structures are different from melodies and yes, everything in some shape or form has a melody. This I did not deny. I never said recording feedback was revolutionary but rather it being the true "raw" approach onto things. Alert Status Red IS your straight-forward song musically & lyrically. Now obviously it isn't going to be as cliched as the aforementioned Green Day song but it still follows the current libertarian/socialist beliefs against elitist corporations munipulating underprivileged cultures and societies. There are plenty of songs like that and Matt Good isn't being original at all but he did state strong points that have to be noted. Matt Good being less commercial because of sales is a very ignorant viewpoint. Coming from the age of the Internet, you should know for yourself that ALL RECORD SALES have dropped dramatically since the early 00s and it has progressed even worse come right now. The only artists who still sell records are those who are all over the media spotlight being media & television; Green Day are a fine example. But just because record sales have dropped does not mean that they're less accessible. Matthew Good obviously isn't the cool thing right now and even if he stripped out another Hello Time Bomb, record sales would not make a difference in the mere slightest. That edgy sound from the past is NOT all over the radio right now. The current trend since 2003 is to be independent and have a lo-fi, underproduced sound. Tell me why Modest Mouse have become so popular all of a sudden after making a great record over another? The OC Soundtracks (big time teen-based show) only features bands who attempt at the independent sound with NO edgyness or distortion. Turn on your radio right now; you aren't going to here as much Limp Bizkit, Staind, or Godsmack but rather Modest Mouse, Franz Ferdinand and The White Stripes. Those acts are the trend right now and Matt Good is (can we say subconsciously?) trying to coincide with the create trends in alternative music. Wilco are a commericial group, as they had reasonable success through their entire career and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot has been absolutely praised by critics; everywhere from Pitchfork to Allmusic. [i have to go to class so if I don't respond to you, it doesn't mean that "I lost" but rather, I am away from the computer. And sorry I took so long to answer with this message, I was being distracted.]

Bob Dylan is known for being a strong songwriter, not just a strong lyricist. There are tons of great musicians out there that can't write shit. Think of every vocalist or shredder in the 80's, great musical talent but there songs are a joke. I agree that there are tons of great musicians who can't come up with anything half decent. But the 80s were a great time for music; The Cure, The Smiths, Sonic Youth, The Pixies, Jane's Addiction just to even begin. They were great musicians and they could put songs together.

Hey smart guy, learn something about music then get an informed opinion. Raw has nothing to do with a lack of melodic structure. Raw mean to be farily unproduced, being the album was recorded for the majority live off the floor, i would say calling it raw is a fair statement. Just recording feedback does not define something as being raw, it defines it as not being music. Melodic structure is the essence of music. I love feedbeck and I think it adds lots to a song or record, but anyone can make their guitar feedback and its not something Sonic Youth discovered by any means. Melody is what makes music music. All songs have melodic structure, thats what makes them songs. And I don't recall saying WLRRR was groundbreaking. Empty Road isn't dumbed down because the lyrics,have you even heard the song? Cause your talking out of your ass, you don't seem to be a fan of facts and proof.And if your "Simplifying the music to gain a more accessible audience" the last thing your gonna do is write a song like Empty Road or Blue Skies or Alert Status Red. Just because songs like Put Out Your Lights and Poor Man's Grey are structured in the more rock vain, doesn't mean they can't say something or be good or uncommercial. Remember what songs were singles on that record. Matt had his biggest commercial success with time bomb and load me up and such, why didn't he write songs like those and release them as singles if he wanted the album to be more commercial? Let me know I'm dying to hear what genius insight you've come up with. Being "raw" meaning fairly unproduced, mainly for the "live off the floor" is complete bologna. Matt Good was just trying to find an excuse when critics asked him why the album was such a step backwards in the opposite direction. It isn't the most enjoyable album to listen to so its best to crank it up during shows to reach his demographically accessible audience but they won't know the difference. They'll blindly agree and think, "Hey, these songs are less technical and aim of the minimalistic approach, these songs are so raw & live off the floor, that's why he plays them and I agree 100%. North American For Life!". I never said that Sonic Youth discovered the raw sound but they sure hell make a better representation of it rather than any Matt Good release, esp. White Light. This isn't even a part of the argument but I'll still ask, who "discovered" the rawness in modern rock then? Melodic structure isn't the essence of music. Have you heard any of the brilliant albums written by Mike Patton? He follows absolutely no standard melodic structures and it's fantastic. Here you go again, supporting Empty Road because of the lyrics. Well I have not once spoken about the lyrics, just about the music...and Empty Road falls short of being innovating or whatever the hell you are trying to make it. How the hell is Alert Status Red not a simplified song to gain a more accessible audience? Answer that one for me, I'm dying to know. Just because something is structed and "more rock vain" doesn't mean that it can't be good. I never said that once. I think White Light is a good cd but it is by far means a "raw" album that made progression from Avalanche. He didn't write songs like Time Bomb and Load Me Up anymore because Matt Good has moved away from that edgy sound. He is more or less becoming a alternative-country musician and there is NOTHING raw about that. And don't try to tell me that alt-country is not an accessible genre; it sticks to the basics and aims for an older mid 20s-late 30s demographic that wouldn't be offended by any means of it. Your turn, smart guy. [i made a few grammatical errors and I fixed those up. I didn't edit anything else]

Bob Dylan may have been incredibly influencial as a musician but he is by no means a musically gifted player who broke barriers with different styles and approaches with his guitar. Bob Dylan is known for being a strong lyricist; not a multi-skilled musician.

White Light Rock And Roll Review isn't dumbed down? No, it isn't. Dumbed down and simplified are different concepts. For example, what at first seems a simple statement like "you don't need to fly to understand it, just understand understanding" proves (at least to myself) to extrapolate upon itself, more powerful than half of the avalanche album. MOre with less in some instances. Yes, there are straight rockers, but i certainly wouldn't call any of the tracks 'dumbed down.' Musically dumbed down as opposed to lyrically dumbed down is what I meant. you cannot honestly say that Blue Skies Over Badlands or Empty Road or We're So Heavy are dumbed-down, i wonder if the correct term your lookign for is rawness, if thats the case, yes the album is raw, if not, i'm not sure how you eqaute that record record with being dumbed down. Please explain. There is nothing "raw" about White Light. When I think of raw, I look at the album EVOL by Sonic Youth. Let me guess, Empty Road isn't dumbed down because Matt Good used a slide guitar?? Blue Skies and We're So Heavy are pretty much the only noteworthy songs on the entire album but there was nothing groundbreaking about either one of them Dumbed-down and raw are completely different. Raw = Endless feedback without aiming for a melodic structure. Dumbed-down = Simplifying the music to gain a more accessible audience.

nice try, really nice try, I can't speak for their new stuff with the other singer, but nothign edwin was ever a part of was innovating, he's a hack, they should never have beeen in that band. unless you were joking, in that case, touchee (is that how you spell that?) Nothing he was apart of was innovating? Tell me one album that sounded like Dig in 1993. Hell, right now as well. insert random boring canadian rock record here and the sound they had on dig was not innovating, it came out of the grunge sound, as everything else did, much is not so much a bad thing, just that its not innovating. Came OUT of the grunge sound? Oh yes, because Dig is an album full of drowsy guitars, dirty riffs played very low, all slow tempos, 4/4 time signatures and songs about heroin and angst; with no variation in songs structures! Wow, how did I miss that one out? Idiot.

White Light Rock And Roll Review isn't dumbed down? No, it isn't. Dumbed down and simplified are different concepts. For example, what at first seems a simple statement like "you don't need to fly to understand it, just understand understanding" proves (at least to myself) to extrapolate upon itself, more powerful than half of the avalanche album. MOre with less in some instances. Yes, there are straight rockers, but i certainly wouldn't call any of the tracks 'dumbed down.' Musically dumbed down as opposed to lyrically dumbed down is what I meant.

nice try, really nice try, I can't speak for their new stuff with the other singer, but nothign edwin was ever a part of was innovating, he's a hack, they should never have beeen in that band. unless you were joking, in that case, touchee (is that how you spell that?) Nothing he was apart of was innovating? Tell me one album that sounded like Dig in 1993. Hell, right now as well.

No Code for sure. Though, all of them have something unique to offer. This is impossible but I'll say: No Code > Vitalogy (gotta love the filler) > Binaural > Yield > Vs. > Riot Act > Ten.

Completely useless poll without Strange Days.

White Light Rock And Roll Review isn't dumbed down?