Alberta Debt Free

[calgarydave]

No more debt for us! WHOO HOO!

 

lol now the rest of ya's are REALLY jelous of our oil. MUWHAHAHAHAHA!

[pearanoid]

Yes but you all hate the gays and gave the world Nickleback.

 

Alberta is still ass.

[calgarydave]

we dont all hate gays, just our premier and bishop lol

 

and nickleback sucks. Well thats not true its just that the radio station plays them all the time, so even if I kinda like a song of thiers the first time, but the end of the first week of its release, I've heard it 100 time and am sick of it.

[wonks]

haven't you guys been debt free for a while now?

[Munk]

I'm glad Alberta's debt free. Now they can start pumping the provinces' funds into the rest of their country.

[calgarydave]

haven't you guys been debt free for a while now?

We've been "net debt" free, meaning our assest overweighed our debts.

 

But as of last week the government has set aside enough money to pay off the rest of the debt as it comes due.

[cturko]

Makes me proud to live in Alberta. ;) Many people who live in Alberta don't really realize how well off we really are. We have a really high SOL.

[Moonlight_Graham]

No shit. Its not hard to be a debt-free province when you're swimming in oil.

[cturko]

Okay Moonlight. You obviously don't realize that half that revenue goes straight back to the Federal government and all of the other provinces. Its not as if though we horde the money to ourselves. You'd be surprised where most of the money goes.

[ecnarf]

Yeah, like not having to pay a provincial sales tax on everything. Does your money not go into that?

[Bizud]

Okay Moonlight. You obviously don't realize that half that revenue goes straight back to the Federal government and all of the other provinces. Its not as if though we horde the money to ourselves. You'd be surprised where most of the money goes.

Other provinces?

[calgarydave]

Yeah gotta love federal transfer payments, we get seriously BONED. lol okay I dont mind it that much since we are a "have" province.

 

But when ottawa does stuff like the NEP thats when we have to draw the line. Why? well jeeze even the rumour of it totally put our economoy in the shitter for a bunch of years.

[Bizud]

Equalization payments are never from one province to another; the money comes from the Federal government.

[cturko]

Either way Bizud. The money still comes from Alberta and Ontario, through the Federal government.

[Bizud]

The money actually comes from taxation from all provinces, more isn't taken per capita in the "have" provinces. Yeah, the "haves" don't get any of it back, but that hardly equates to getting "seriously BONED" - at least no more than Ontario and, when it was a "have," BC.

[cturko]

Much to your dismay, Alberta and Ontario do get more taken from them per capita then any other province, and they receive, little, if any back.

 

And, looking at population densities between the two provinces (Alberta and Ontario). Alberta does get more "seriously BONED"...we only have about 3.2 million people, whereas Ontario has somewhere close too 12.3 million people.

 

If this money does come through on taxes, and both are paying roughly the same sum. Where does that extra amount of 9.1 million extra taxpayers come from?

[Bizud]

Albertans and Ontarians do not pay any more in federal taxes per capita. The rest doesn't make any sense, what does population density have to do with anything?

[cturko]

I'm babbling and not making any sense now. I'll shut-up. It just comes down to the fact that it seems to me like your defending the amount of cash that is being given to provinces like yours (I'm assuming by your attitude that you live somewhere other then either Alberta or Ontario)...

 

 

...anyways.

[Bizud]

I'm from BC, and yes, I do defend equalization payments, which are necessary for poorer provinces to provide adequate services - just as I defend publicly-funded education, which is necessary for poorer people to receive adequate education.

[cturko]

I agree with both equilization payments, as well as publicly-funded education. Although what Dave was refering to in the first place in this thread is the fact that Alberta pays alot of money to the Federal government for these payments, and doesn't get any of it back at all. Mind you, I agree that we don't need any of it back anyways. We haven't recieved any, and have now become officially debt free. Although perhaps would you not think that other provinces should also be able to find some sort of sustainiable, or at least more then minimal income from their own natural resources? Alberta has just been placed in the spotlight because of our large oil reserves in the oil sands. Other provices do have their own natural source for revenue. The position that you seem to be defending is that the other provinces entirely depend on the Federal government for their existence, which I believe isn't entirely true. It happens, but isn't 100% believiable.

[Munk]

I still don't see how "getting none of it back" means anything. You said it yourself, Alberta is net free. You don't need it. And it's not like the other provinces aren't doing what they can to pull their weight. Alberta just struck lucky geographically.

 

Despite what a lot of Albertans like to admit, you're a part of a country. Not an island.

[cturko]

It depends on what your definition of an island is. I'm currently lost for words on this...what are we arguing about now? We're just pointlessly bickering back and forth.

 

I think I'm going to stop now.

[wonks]

...Although perhaps would you not think that other provinces should also be able to find some sort of sustainiable, or at least more then minimal income from their own natural resources? Alberta has just been placed in the spotlight because of our large oil reserves in the oil sands. Other provices do have their own natural source for revenue. The position that you seem to be defending is that the other provinces entirely depend on the Federal government for their existence, which I believe isn't entirely true. It happens, but isn't 100% believiable.

like Newfoundland and cod...oh wait...maybe PEI and potatoes...wait, those too...despite all the bitching ontarians and albertans do, federal transfer payments are necessary for those provinces that are not loaded with natural resources, or for those provinces that are not the economic centre of the country.

[cturko]

like Newfoundland and cod...oh wait...maybe PEI and potatoes...wait, those too...despite all the bitching ontarians and albertans do, federal transfer payments are necessary for those provinces that are not loaded with natural resources, or for those provinces that are not the economic centre of the country.

 

I understand that they are needed for other provinces, but do you not think that the "poorer" provinces should be able to find a way to increase their revenue? Whether they are the economic center of the country or not. I'm not saying that the Federal government should stop equalization payments. I'm merely suggesting that they are too much...unless I worded what I said before wrong.

[Bizud]

Actually, they're nowhere near enough. One of the ways Paul Martin "slew the deficit dragon" in the 90's was by transfering the burden to the provinces by cutting a lot of transfer payments. We see the results in the erosion of health care and education services. If we want to resolve the health care crisis Canada is facing, Ottawa needs to pump a lot more money into the provincial coffers.

 

Example of equalization formula (from 1999):

 

 

Note that the aim is not technically equalization; taxation on the "have" provinces is not increased to reduce them to the average.

Edited April 3, 2005 by Bizud