Idealich

I'm typically inclined to believe that the truth is somewhere in the middle as well. However, given Hayley's recent social media posts, I'm now more inclined to see her as a social and political reactionary. Her public posting of misinformation has led me to suspect that her depiction of prior events might not be totally truthful as well, and so I'm becoming more willing to give Matt some benefit of the doubt. I still hope Matt is doing some personal growth work, and I still think it's totally possible he might be a bit awkward or unskilled in the way he navigates relationships or hook-ups, but should he tour or release more music, I'll likely support him.

I agree 100%- this is exactly the way I'm approaching the situation. I also have quite a bit of experience working in the mental health field Daniel, so I appreciate your perspective here. It does now seem that some of MG's behaviour may have crossed the threshold into what we would deem as criminal in Canada, specifically the non-consensual sharing of intimate images (based on HM most recent posts on IG). This suggests that there could be legal consequences going forward. This of course, also suggests that we won't hear much from MG going forward that isn't filtered through his legal team. If anyone is interested, here is the specific offense that may be relevant here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-162.1.html

I think that ultimately, any discussion about belief or ‘proof’ will just end up going in circles. For some, the amount of proof that they would need to morally condemn MG would be so extreme that it would border on impossible to acquire, and even if impossible proof was put in front of them, I suspect some would still think he didn’t do anything wrong. At the same time, I do think that there is another group that uncritically accepts anything online without reflection, and just assumes that since MG might not be the saint that they imagined him to be, instead they should destroy him and his reputation. I think this kind of black-and-white thinking is precisely what online discourse promotes and unfortunately won’t allow any nuanced consideration of the situation. I think what is often forgotten is that someone can be both an amazing artist who has done important advocacy, and at the same time someone who has emotionally harmed those around them, perhaps even unintentionally. I suspect that, as I mentioned in my earlier post, MG probably doesn’t feel as if he’s done anything wrong, and probably also never sat down and thought “how can I painstakingly develop a strategy to manipulate women to sleep with me?” I think over the years he probably has developed some habits unconsciously that helped to satisfy his needs in a reliable way, that leveraged his talents (as a musician) and led to some temporary satisfaction on his end, and emotional harm on the other (perhaps not even consistently- some may have not experienced it as harmful). I think everyone leverages their talents, resources, and emotions when flirting and seducing (both men and women), but ultimately doing so in a way that is experienced by some as abusive or manipulative is a problem. As I attempted to also explain, legal issues and moral issues are not necessarily equivalent (law is codified morality, but there are lots of outrageous things that are not legally wrong). MG does not appear at this point to have broken the law. So instead, moral outrage has to play out socially, and what I’d like to see as a fan is that he shows some accountability instead of just denying what these women have experienced. Even if he doesn’t believe that he did something wrong, instead of outright denying the experiences of others, it would be ideal if he were to say that he maybe doesn’t recognize for himself what he did wrong, but that it’s very clear he’s led to harm for others, and that he now has some responsibility to uncover what habits and tendencies he has developed that have contributed to the emotional harm of others. Then, if he steps aside and gets some help, I’m convinced that he would return as a better person- and one who would be accepted back into the music industry. Pragmatically speaking, I do have some concerns about the consequences of this situation for those who are ‘fans’ and who want to be able to continue to listen to his music. I think what is often troubling for those that experience this situation as a “mob” “cancelling” MG is that they feel that they are being indirectly told by others (including now his management and label) that they ought to no longer consume his music. Of course, I don’t think this is a ‘mob’ or anything of that sort, but I still am frustrated by people who tell others that they ‘ought’ to not listen to a “bad person.” MG is not a bad person. He is a person. A complex person, who has done both harm and good in his life. No one is just ‘a good person’ or a ‘bad person.’ I think every musician, like every person on earth, has made good and bad choices in their lives, and have hurt people around them. And I know that from my experiences being alive, I haven’t always atoned for being an asshole to people, nor have people always atoned for being assholes towards me. Ultimately, we all hurt each other constantly and we grow from that hurt and hopefully learn to do better. MG is in a pivotal moment now where he can choose how he reacts to this situation and those choices will ultimately affect what he can do in the future- whether he could be signed by a label again, whether his music will be widely available again, whether fans will ever get to support him again in the future (…and whether fans will ever get a printing of WLRRR on vinyl…damn it). I don’t want to be told that I can’t listen to his music again by a label or by people online…but thankfully I’ve been able to get my hands on most everything he’s released and so no one can tell me when and how I consume his music at this point. That being said, it is sad that this may mean others can’t be as easily exposed to his art (which is of course the consequence of his playing out publicly)- unless MG changes his whole approach to handling this situation. So, pragmatically, the way I’m approaching this is to ensure that I have access to his music whenever I want (i.e. not by streaming since that access can be changed). Otherwise the ball is in MG’s court. He will ultimately determine whether he tours, whether he regains fans he lost, and whether we will ever have access to his back catalogue again. Let’s see how this plays out- the best thing we can do as fans (or ex-fans) is to encourage him to seek help and show accountability (and encourage those he has hurt to also seek help for the pain they’re also experiencing so that they're also able to recover).

Yeah I noticed it was down yesterday as well...I guess that's likely it for the store. That's largely why I ended up grabbing whatever music of his that I didn't already own physically when I heard about this situation- I suspect that it will become very hard to find his music after this since there won't be any rush for any reprints of CDs or Vinyls by the label (so long my hopes of having WLRRR reissued on vinyl...). I also suspect that his music could eventually be removed from streaming depending on how much publicity this whole situation gets, so having physical backups of his stuff will be important for those of us whole will continue to listen to his music. Unless there's some sort of public redemption after this where he is able to own up to his actions and return anew, I don't suspect we'll ever see his music widely available again. Again, I believe the victims and find his actions immoral and abhorrent, but I still want to be able to access his music.

I wasn’t sure if I wanted to make a reply here, but here it goes. I’ve listened to MG since I was a kid, and have been a pretty hardcore fan for years. I love his music, and personally cannot imagine that I’ll ever stop listening to his songs. But all of that aside, I want to really take a step back and write about how I feel about this situation. I feel strongly that after reading the number of allegations that have been made that there is a fairly high likelihood that MG has done some inappropriate/immature/harmful things in his personal life. I agree with others who said here that he seemed to have lived the life of a Rockstar, and undoubtedly trampled on the sentiments of fans whom he’d have liaisons with. None of these claims, at least at this point, have reached a threshold for criminality in Canada. The age of consent in Canada is 16, so if Matt was sleeping with women over this age, he’s within his rights to do so if the liaison is consensual. Flirting can often be interpreted in hindsight as manipulation, and while I’m sure some have regretted their encounters with him, again I don’t think that sexual flirtation is necessarily problematic. None of these accounts so far suggest that MG was engaged in any sort of blatant sexual harassment either- I would hope that if some of these women asked him to stop sending them sexual messages, he would have done so. Finally, if he did transmit an STI to someone unknowingly, then he wouldn’t be responsible for that. As far as I’m aware, there is only a problem if there is explicit proof that he knew unequivocally he had an STI (i.e., via a positive test) and withheld that information from a partner. That being said, he very likely has engaged in some immature and harmful relational behaviour that is probably the reflection of growing up in the spotlight, and thereby not having the same opportunity for normative relational experiences as others, while at the same time also struggling with mental illness, which was untreated for the majority of his life. As a result, like Aziz Ansari, I wouldn’t be surprised if MG was stunted in terms of his capacity to develop healthy mutual relationships. Why do men cheat? Because they’re not mature enough to have made a relational commitment in the first place! I do find it interesting that he automatically defers to his mental illness as an excuse, which is obviously an immature reaction- he seems to see himself as a tragic figure that is tortured, that makes art to express his pain, and therefore his immaturity is justified by the suffering he experiences. He has been handily rewarded for one product of his suffering, so why could anyone possibly blame him for the other unintended consequences [read my heavy sarcasm]? He has probably imagined himself in light of the many historical images of the tortured artist, and thus sees those images as justification for his behaviours. Narcissistic and immature? Yes. Clearly someone who is a human struggling and in need of some sort of help? Absolutely. This isn’t to minimize the pain of the women that he’s hurt, because I imagine that they all also have their own complex stories, their own trauma, their own immaturity, and their own need of help…and the impetus to share stories with others, to corroborate their experiences is very much an expression of needing help that should be encouraged. At the same time, the moment I heard this news, my first reaction was to purchase a bunch of his albums on CD that I was missing (I had digital copies or vinyl) out of concern that they wouldn’t be available again. Why? Because I’m afraid that the art will be punished alongside the artist, as it always is. MG as a person is inextricably linked to his work, and thus it will be punished alongside him…and perhaps he should be punished. Perhaps we ought to stop listening to him and curse his name as another man who used a position of privilege to harm those who idolized him. At the same time, perhaps we can step back from him, acknowledge that there was harm committed, and encourage him to seek help, to be better as a person, and that by working through some of that trauma that underlies his music, he could come back better able to speak to his fans with new music in a healthier way. And then, ultimately, he can decide what to do. Perhaps he’ll keep making music as if nothing has happened. Perhaps he’ll decide to hang up the guitar and retire in banishment, as Jian Ghomeshi before him. Ideally, I hope that he’ll seek help and come back while acknowledging the pain he’s caused and explain what led to that pain in a new album. He has the opportunity to be an example to others right now- by owning up to his errors, to seek the help to be better, and to use that energy to make even more meaningful art. Whatever happens, I hope all parties involved get the help

I just received my 2018 vinyl from the MG store, and had the same issue- ordered the white vinyl for Avalanche, it had the white sticker on the outside, and there was black vinyl inside. Super disappointed that this seems to be such a widespread issue... I sent off an email to CS, and really hope they're able to provide what I had initially ordered. It's been quite a series of unfortunate events for all these MG vinyl releases- first no 'Omissions of the Omen' on LOTGA, then a widespread skip defect on Hospital Music, then this fiasco with the white vinyl version of Avalanche...

I've got exactly the same physical defect with my copy. I've sent a picture to them with the line visible, and hopefully they'll be able to figure something out...it would be great to get through that song without a skip :)

Hey all, I contacted the MG online store where I purchased my records as my copy of HM also has the skip on 99% (I don't think I had put on side B since I got it back in Jan, and only noticed it about a week ago). Mason from customer services mentioned that they weren't aware that there was a persistent issue with this pressing of HM that was affecting so many people (it was the first time someone had brought it to their attention., and that there were no current plans to go back into production for HM (or LOTGA despite the missing track). I'm going to provide a video of the issue for the store, and also directed them to this forum as evidence of the persistent issues...but it might not be a bad idea to also send some other videos if you're experiencing issues and bought HM from the MG online store. I was a pre-order person, and I doubt they'll be able to do much for me at the moment, but perhaps if they get enough messages, they'll consider doing something on a wider scale (i.e. providing replacement discs that have been corrected without the skipping on that track).