calm2chaos

OOO the old lose less people idea.. I never thought of that..

A lot of US blood was spilled in these wars. Far more then Canada. Not to diminish or negate the canadian contribution at all. Any candian that serves I have respect for. But to attempt to down play any contribution in either the war is utterly ridiculous. This however has nothing to do with the present. And as the woorld sits now. Canada does sit comfortably beneath the umbrella of the US. Casualties WWI Canada-60,000 US-118,000 WWII Canada-42,042 US-291,557 16 x the amount of men in theater during WWII. Not to mention they were fighting on multiple fronts.

So Saddam's invasion of Kuwait was legal? If there's no such thing as international law, then what crime did Saddam commit when he invaded Kuwait? Canada has fought in wars before, by the way, there just haven't been any legitimate ones to fight in sixty years. It's not like Canada and France are off in left field opposing the war in Iraq. The overwhelming majority of the world's population, even in some countries that did participate, was opposed to the war, and it's not hard to see why: the reasons given were absurd. Finally, opposition to any war never needs to be justified, it's assumed. You never need to give any argument against going to war, it's up to those who say violence should be used to prove it. No canada faces no threats because they fall under the US millitary umbrella, end of story. No one goes after canada in a millitary fashion because we will not allow it. Thats a pretty simple concept isn't it. And knowing you are safe under this umbrella makes critisizing easy. When you don't have to worry about what other major nations have to worry about. Then you get to be protected as you sit on your moral highhorse The war resolution passed had other reasons for entering into the war, WMD's were part of it. But having years to hide something within an entire country. Something that can be as small as a 55 gallon drum. That could very well be impossible to find. You sometimes actualy have to fight for things. It's all well and good to run off to your anti war party. Call the soldiers nazis and the president hitler. It's these same guys that have been fighting and dying for hundreds of years to give many of you the right to insult them.

Thats the point........... You face none and never will. You have this luxury due to your location. Nobody is going to mess with canda because they know they will then have to deal with us As far as the WMD's go which is getting to be a tired argument. That was not the one and only reason the US entered into Iraq. But if you want to know about the WMD's why don't you go ask the kurds. They probably can tell you a little something about them since he used some on them. Or was all those deaths a media typo?

But like the french we expect canada to oppose war. It's easy to voice those opinions when your not going to ever be asked to stand up and back them. Certain countries we knew would oppose the war. They opposed it because they oppose pretty much anything the US is involved in unless told it's ok by the UN. Canada does not have to worry about there security being left to the UN, thats what we are here for. We on the other hand are not going to leave our security to the UN. The Iraqi war resolution was passed within our congress. Thats all we needed legally. Why wait for an inept organization like the UN to give us permission to do something. Specially when the main players in the UN are going to denoiunce anything we are involved in anyway. Kind of like banging your head against the wall....LOL

It's always someone elses fault that I robbed a liquor store or shot an old man or raped an old woman. I have no doubt it was societies fault i deal drugs and extort money from them. Society was mean to me and didn't pat me on my back when I was growing up. So because society didn't treat me specialits ok if I break the law. Almost makes me want to cry

It's a story if you want people to listen. or it's no story of you just want to break shit

I didn't imply that. It is a phrase commonly used by people of my culture. Not everything means the same in your world. Well, good for you. Really. So? What's your point? Are you faulting a country for keeping their economic interests at heart? Despite the fact that no country with any sense of morals would do business with any dictator, every country still does it. In this case, it was France doing business with this particular country and had their hands in the cookie jar. When it comes to other countries, the U.S. has had its hands in that cookie jar with arms trades and wielding tons of political influence. If the situation were reversed, and France wanted to invade Saddam on bogus intelligence and the U.S. stood to lose a whole lot of money, would there be something wrong with the U.S. protecting its interests? Furthermore, do keep in mind that the majority of the entire European continent, in terms of population, opposed the war. Regular people are oblivious to what contracts its government has with what countries. The fact remains that, economic interests or not, the French government was representing the opinion of the majority of its population. Likewise, the U.S., economic interests or not, invaded Iraq on the support of the majority of its population, even if it was for the wrong reasons. Yet people all over the world accuse the U.S. of invading Iraq for the oil, something which pro-war advocates deny. So I find that just a little bit odd. France can be accused of opposing the war for economic benefits (even though the French people opposed it), but the U.S. can't be accused of invading for economic benefit. Oh well. Secondly, the home-grown insurgents certainly weren't terrorists that were being trained within Iraq. They're people that have been driven to extremism from extreme circumstances. Studies have been done showing that the majority of Iraqi civilian deaths were at the hands of the U.S. military, usually through poorly-aimed aimed missiles. You're right in saying that these people have no scruples. But how the hell do you think they came to murder people on a daily basis? Through the U.S. invading this country. Believe it or not, but this situation wouldn't be happening had the U.S. not invaded Iraq.

I'm still here, was just trying to figure out how to blame everyone but the criminal... AAAAA must be nice

First off lets get something straight. I am not your fucking buddy or your friend. Secondly I served 4 years in the military, so please do not assume you know me or what I have done. Thirdly I never EVER said that they were the only ones in the cookie jar. But they were the loudest when it came time. And they had the most to lose financialy. Next, the terrorist that were being trained and supoorted within Iraq before the invasion are now targeting it's population. Don't fool YOURSELF in thinking that american soldiers are killing these people. You can say or do whatever you want. But the facts are just that, FACTS. And these people are dying at the hands of murdering terrorist who have no problems with killing innocent women and children. they are following a doctrine that says murdering anyone that is not muslim is ok. They make no distinction between military and civilian. An infidel is an infidel and anything or anybody is worth the price to kill them. As far as the other dictators go. I never said this is, or was the only place there was a problem. But the fat is we can't fight 5 or 6 different wars at once. it's tough enough we have to fight this like a politicaly correct video game. This isn't going to be a quick process and we were never told it was. But with a few of the major players out on the sidelines as usual. It's gong to take time. Lastly, how bout reading the post before you shoot your mouth off. I don't believe I ever said france would profit from the war. The war cost france money. THAT was the reason they were opposed. So if you can't stop everything all at once it's not worth doing. Thank god you didn't have anything to say about WWI and WWII. I find it more amazing that muslims are not disevowing themselves of these people that are killing there children. Instead they stand quitely making easy targets. That may very well be why. Personaly I would love to see my soldiers out of Iraq. My opinion is that these people are not worth my soldiers blood. They refuse to fight for themselves or help the fight for them. By the way if you have a solution to all these problems in the ME please educate me. I'm sure talking and resolutions and sanctions would work. O wait no they don't.

as you may imagine (but, of course, you can't because you dont know me), your words don't offend me at all... you don't even know how much active I am with respect to social issues (other people from the NF who know me a bit better know it)... if you bothered to read more of my posts here, you would see that I'm not just "complaining and doing nothing"... you are not living in Madrid and you dont know what I'm actually doing in order to fight against unjustice behaviors curiously, the horror which is taking place in Iraq has not been caused by people who care about others... curiously, that horror has come from the unfair desire of power and money from the Bush administration... and curiously, that desire of power and arrogance comes from an american administration... it is curious to read how you find France (and I suppose extended to the rest of Europe) so hypocritical for fear to "lose money" when many of the US actions in international politics is just to keep that power and not lose money (and, just in case you think that, I'm not defending France's or European international politics, not even my own country's international politics) changes in the world always come from ordinary citizens, which is something that the UN lacks of: real ordinary citizens who know the problems and concerns of humanity Let me start off by saying I didn't mean you specifically but as a more general sense. I don't know you so I don't personally have any idea on what your motive is. Secondly the horror in Iraq is being caused by terrorist and nobody else. The dead ad dying are there because they are detonating explosives in crowded streets and groups of children. You can shine this anyway you want. But the facts are the facts. And the facts show people are dying at the hands of terrorist in Iraq. Us soldiers are not at war with the civilian population, unlike the (insurgents) or better known as terrorist. Lets place the blame correctly and stop making excuses for those that are TARGETING the innocent. france had contracts and loans with iraq. all of which would be down the tubes if the invasion took place. Not to mention some very very shady trading with sadam going on. All of which comes into jeapordy when the US attacks. This goes also I believe for Germany and Russia. They did not abstain from this because it was wrong or was unjust. They stayed out because it was gong to cost them money and credibility. France did not stay out of the war because it was wrong the stayed out because there was nothing in it specifically for france. Hel I have talked to people frem france and they have told me the same thing. "Unless thereis something in it for us why should we go". And in the end they will profit without spilling a drop. Freedom isn't free, some people just like to buy on credit. The UN is what it is. It willnever be more and never be what it was hoped. It's a large humanitarian organization that can't get it's shit straight. If your looking for protection or force or a presence you can't look at the UN. It just doesn't have the teeth to make you thinkm it might bite

There are most definetly other countries out there that are even bigger supporters of terrorist then Iraq or saddam. And yes they do need to be dealt with. But the resources to do this on 6 different would be staggering and impossible to cordinate. Hell one is proving to be a pain in the ass PC war. Unlike france that does pretty much nothing. O yeah except for oppose things so they wouldn't lose money or a few other little details. Sitting on the sidelines allowing everybody else to do the work isn't nobel it's cowardice. You weren't booing us when we pulled your asses out of the fire a while back. You need to find someone with the stones to invade us first. And since we know that isn't going to happen we will just have to see how the world plays out. If you want something more, then become more active. Don't sit in the background and complain, do something. By the way doesn't france have nukes? So the next country that knocks on there door and says boo gets themselves a full blown arsenal. NICE By the way, should we just cower and hidefrom the terrorist if they come after us? I mean some countries do that. Always a good idea to run in the corner when someones mean to you. Wonder who that was?

But the simple fact is as soon as you destroy something I stop listening. If it's something of mine i'm going to stomp a 3 foot mudhole in your ass. As soon as people stop listening to you your message is useless. And thats what happens when you break the law or destroy shit. Your actions become the story and not your cause.

The easiest solution is to NOT break the law.